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50 ANNI DI INTELLIGENZA CRITICA IN ITALIA. Conversazione con Walter Pedullà di Michele Infante


Lei ha attraversato con la sua esperienza critica cinquant’anni della storia letteraria del 900’. Una memoria lunga, fatta di discussioni, riviste, scrittori, personaggi e mode letterarie e accademiche. Cosa rimarrà del secolo letterario che si è appena concluso?

Del 900’ restano, anche se sembra banale dirlo, libri: libri di narrativa, poesia, saggistica, memorie e di critica, ovviamente. Premetto che io ho amato molto il 900’, l’ho vissuto da dentro e non me ne sento né sazio, né tanto meno ho il vezzo snobistico di metterlo in secondo ordine rispetto ad altri secoli. Cosa ha fatto il ‘900 in letteratura? Quella che la cultura gli ha dato delega di fare, né più né meno, e a dir il vero, personalmente mi sembra tanto. Anzi direi che lo scopo è stato raggiunto. Cosa c’è di nuovo? Beh, come in tutti i secoli vi sono repliche e differenze. La materia è per eccellenza la stessa: l’uomo ed il suo modo di vivere, lottare, combattere, fare guerre o l’amore. Di sospetto invece, vi è che il secolo ha dovuto usare spesso il prefisso neo, come per dire “stiamo parlando e facendo qualcosa di nuovo”, e quindi farlo consapevolmente. Ma come si fa a dire cosa viene prima? Cosa è veramente nuovo? Si rischia di cadere nel dilemma di cosa viene prima l’uovo o la gallina, prima vengono le novità a livello dei contenuti e poi quelle della forma, o viceversa. In realtà bisogno sempre ragionare nell’ordine della persistenza e delle differenze, su cosa muta e cosa persiste. Ad esempio il secondo Novecento presenta la guerra e la sua inevitabile miseria, e poi successivamente la sua ricostruzione, e questo è un fatto di persistenza, ma allo stesso tempo presenta due fatti nuovi: da un lato la possibilità per l’umanità di autodistruggersi, cioè le armi nucleari, dall’altra invece il lager. Non che civiltà che si siano distrutte o razzismo non esistevano prima, ma il nucleare ed i lager si sono avuti solo nel ‘900. Ora come io racconto la persistenza ed al tempo stesso il nuovo, e come posso chiamare questo mix di novità e persistenza: il reale? Posso percepire pure la questione meridionale come il reale, ma è una persistenza o una novità? Se il realismo è un’epica della realtà, dovremmo chiederci cos’è reale e cosa invece non lo è, ma come facciamo a distinguerlo con chiarezza? Il mio principio di realtà potrebbe essere diverso da quello di un altro.

In questi giorni è uscito il suo libro di memorie e di ricordi legati alla figura di Debenedetti (Il novecento segreto di Giacomo Debenedetti, Rizzoli Bur, pag. 212, €17,00). Un debito umano e professionale, lo spessore di una valenza critica e storica. Perché questo testo?

Mi pongo sempre la domanda su cosa sia necessario scrivere. Cosa sia necessario scrivere per me; e cosa è necessario che io scriva per la società, la cultura, la comunità di studiosi o di studenti: con e per “il fuori di me”. Se voglio degli interlocutori, non devo solo interrogare me stesso, ma anche loro. Io sono un critico (non ho mai scritto né un racconto né una poesia) ed ovviamente il mio problema è la critica, come si fa critica e soprattutto se e come forzare un genere (la critica ha la stessa gabbia di genere che ha ad esempio il giallo, o la fantascienza, etc.) come interrogare, far deviare quella forma, per fare critica in modo sempre nuovo, comunicativo e che crei un dialogo con i lettori. Fuggo dal tono burocratio o dalla pesantezza noiosa che a volte conserva in sé molta critica accademica. In questo libro ho ricostruito un personaggio certamente complesso da un punto di vista parziale, il mio. Ho ricreato in un certo senso “il mio Debenedetti”, ma ho anche ricostruito i due decenni secondo me decisivi per la letteratura italiana, gli anni 50’ e 60’ e i loro dibattiti, intuizioni ed idee, inoltre ho cercato di rendere anche l’uomo, il critico, il lettore. De Benedetti affrontava la letteratura con straordinaria lucidità, per cui anche completamente immerso in quel clima ed in quell’ambiente letterario riusciva a sintetizzarne, e a vederne linee e tendenze. Sono anni decisivi per la critica in Italia. Sono il decennio allo stesso tempo del neorealismo, e dello sperimentalismo.

L’ironia e le armi del comico (per citare il titolo anche di un suo testo) possono essere la via di fuga, l’escamotage per uscire dalla stagione dell’impegno? Se nulla è da prendersi sul serio, sia l’uomo che la sua storia, se tutto è fumo (altra citazione di un suo testo), non è finito qualsiasi sistema di valore e si rischia una deriva relativista? Più debole del pensiero debole della filosofia, abbiamo una letteratura fragile?

Nel comico c’è il pericolo di non prendersi sul serio; ma è vero anche che la condizione psicologica del comico è la condizione di chi non ha più paura, di chi desacralizza le istituzioni, gli uomini e le forme tragiche della vita. Il comico certamente rassicura, ma allo stesso tempo ridicolizza la paura, ci dice, come faceva Palazzeschi, che ci si può divertire anche ai funerali. L’elemento comico o grottesco scopre “quello che c’è sotto”, svela la maschera: irridendola, denigrandola, oppure negandola come reale nella sua verità immutabile. Ancora non abbiamo capito se i comici sono i più disperati o i più superficiali. La condizione del comico oscilla dall’un all’altro senso, conservando quest’ambiguità di fondo. Certo quando Holderin dice. “Tu ridi, e non fai niente di meglio che ridere”, è la critica più feroce a chi dissacra e non costruisce, però ci sono momenti in cui bisogna essere dalla parte della comicità, che non significa negare la tragedia, ma far riflettere l’uomo su quali siano in realtà le tragedie, e quali no. Molto spesso le tragedie ed i malesseri sono solo i modi per nascondere delle elegie lagnose, delle lamentazioni sterili e auto-referenziali, e poi le culture producono sempre delle tragedie. Che tragedie sono? Il Novecento ha insistito molto sul comico, Kafka che è oggi letto con l’aria del massimo teorizzatore del tragico, del nulla, della fatica di esistere, leggeva i suoi racconti agli amici ed insieme ne ridevano.

Lei si è sempre definito un critico impegnato (come il suo maestro, Debenedetti, che fu, come dice nel suo libro, marxista e comunista). Cosa significa oggi essere un critico impegnato, non è una definizione che rischia di essere anacronistica?

Essere impegnati significa aver scoperto un tipo di realtà, e sentirla addosso. Farsi carico di quel tipo di realtà e di quel contesto. L’impegno non è andare a raccontare i pescatori poveri della Sicilia come fa Verga, ma essere, sentirti tu stesso un pescatore. Nella stagione dell’impegno noi sentivamo quella condizione come nostra, eravamo coinvolti integralmente. In tutto quello che raccontavamo o facevamo o scrivevamo si portava la nostra testimonianza, i nostri furori, la nostra rabbia, la nostra delusione, la nostra voglia di cambiare le cose. Poi dopo, abbiamo scoperto, e lo dice bene Calvino, che pensavamo di descrivere una realtà oggettiva, dicevamo questa è la nostra Italia ed in realtà parlavamo di Noi, questi siamo noi, e quindi non vi era oggettività ma solo soggettivismo.

Abbiamo parlato dei testi, ma ora vorrei riflettere anche sul pubblico. Com’è cambiato il soggetto che legge narrativa negli ultimi decenni, e se pensa stia emergendo una nuova soggettività?

Oggi abbiamo posto al plurale molte cose, e certamente anche l’idea ed il concetto di pubblico è plurale, si parla di pubblic-i. Io considero in generale, il fatto che delle persone si rivolgono ai libri e alla letteratura per avere delle tensioni, delle risposte, delle domande, delle storie e altro, oggettivamente un dato positivo ed indiscutibile. Ciò che crea una tensione, mette in moto delle energie, è ancora la scrittura, perché la scrittura ha una propria specificità nel veicolare alcuni contenuti, che non possono essere trasmessi da altri media o da altri linguaggi (banalmente come potremmo “fare” La critica della ragion pura di Kant in TV o con il linguaggio di altri media?).

Lei ha scritto “se si vede come un’epoca scrive, si vede cosa intende fare”. Come scriviamo oggi, e cosa Le fa pensare quello che oggi si scrive della società contemporanea?

Dovremmo riprendere il discorso sull’agire (o scegliere di agire) sulle persistenze o sulle differenze, anche oggi la letteratura presenta novità e persistenze. C’è certamente un contesto sociale, economico e politico diverso, ma diverse sono anche le forme. È come un processo di sistole e di diastole, nel primo dopoguerra come dicevamo, si era concentrati sulla Realtà, sistole, poi sulle Forme (neoavanguardia, nuovi tentativi di romanzo, etc.) quindi come se alla sistole avesse seguito una diastole, poi andando verso i nostri giorni i battiti si sono fatti più frenetici. Questo per dire, che sono operazioni del tutto naturali, non c’è nessuna contraddizione tra il giovane Calvino realista e l’ultimo Calvino sperimentalista, sono due momenti di un processo fisiologico.

Come scrivono le nuove generazione, e chi sono gli autori secondo Lei più interessanti?

La letteratura delle nuove generazioni si presenta a volte, come incurante della tradizione. Giovani autori dichiarano di non aver letto né questo né quell’altro importante autore della nostra tradizione, ma di scrivere a partire dà sé o da modelli di altre letterature. In realtà quello che può sembrare un oltraggio, non lo è. Forse è una mistificazione. Che vi siano certe letture dietro ai testi degli autori della nuova generazione, si può intravederlo. Ritengo però questo atteggiamento di rifiuto per la tradizione anche positivo, segno di una vivacità, di una voglia di cambiamento e di rinnovamento. Infondo le nuove generazione di scrittori si sono sempre sviluppate in opposizione alla tradizione dei padri. Leggo con interesse Pincio, Mari (forse a mio avviso lo scrittore più significativo) Di Stefano, Alajmo e anche qualche giovane come Raimo. Nella prima fase questa generazione nuova non sa dove sta andando e non ha un progetto. Ma non è meglio non avere un progetto? Appena si ha un progetto chiaro e si tende a seguirlo pedissequamente, si crea un’ideologia, una cancrena, una situazione statica. Idealizzare il proprio progetto di scrittura o di letteratura è un chiudersi al dialogo, al confronto, all’apertura comunicativa. Ecco, se c’è una cosa che non bisogna fare è installarsi in una chiusura.

Nel suo “Il ritorno dell’uomo di fumo”, lei scrive, “Arriva il momento che anche la Tv più eccitante annoia, se non fa vedere qualcosa di nuovo. Non facciamoci illusioni. È inutile che finga il guardone che legge: nessuno può più fare a meno della televisione. Preghi che essa lasci un po’ di tempo per la lettura”. Scrive di Tv, paradossalmente usando la scrittura di Palazzeschi, in questo capitolo dal titolo LO STATO-SPETTACOLO ovvero L’economia del visionario. Poi c’è la sua lunga esperienza nel Cda (Consiglio di Amministrazione) Rai e la breve parentesi da Presidente. Come vede la Tv, oggi?

La Tv di oggi, non mi piace. Quando ero in Rai ho cercato non di fare cultura in televisione ma di fare cultura televisiva, che è un’altra cosa. Qualsiasi cosa si voglia fare in Tv deve tener presente che non si può non usare il linguaggio televisivo, e che ci sono cose che trasportate senza il giusto adattamento per la TV da altri linguaggi sia la letteratura o il teatro o certo cinema: non funzionano. Non solo pretendere come ho fatto, che vi sia comunque presente in Tv la notizia culturale e non solo quella sportiva, ma non cercare a tutti i costi i dati di ascolto, di non far fare la Tv agli inserzionisti direttamente come avviene oggi, abbassandone sempre più il livello inseguendo il livello culturale dell’ultimo. Vi è il canone e possiamo permetterci anche qualche ascoltatore di meno della concorrenza commerciale, dicevo in Rai e venivo accusato di favorire così la concorrenza. Berlusconi è portatore di una sua “cultura”, di un suo modo di vedere la vita e di suoi valori. Berlusconi ha un’ideologia dell’imprenditorialità legata al successo economico e alla praticità della vita. Berlusconi non fa altro che promuovere e fare l’unica cultura che conosce nel bene o male: la sua.


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