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CONVERSAZIONE LIBERA con Sandro Veronesi


Pomeriggio assolato, appuntamento alla statua di Giordano Bruno. Campo dei fiori. Odore di fiori marci. Una bottiglia d’acqua e due bicchieri. Intermezzi di amici di passaggio, come l’amico scrittore Rocco Fortunato.
Da che parte sei venuto per arrivare fino a qui? Da che lato della piazza…quale percorso di lettore?
Percorso? Ogn’uno ha il suo percorso, alcuni ti convincono, altri meno, il tuo percorso di lettore ti guida nella scrittura come nella vita, vi sono certamente influenze ed un tuo gusto istintivo.
Hai una tua idea di letteratura, una sorta di tua personale teoria letteraria?
Beh, guarda ti posso rispondere ricordando un aneddoto. Eravamo nel camerino dopo una rappresentazione dell’Adelchi, un Adelchi dove Carmelo Bene leggeva e Elisabetta Pozzi recitava. Carmelo ormai era già malato, ormai si considerava morto. E pure Lui con la sua voce leggeva il testo, lo interpretava, rimanendo immobile. Eravamo in questo camerino, e Carmelo Bene era arrabbiatissimo con la Pozzi, e ricordo che gli gridava: “i professionisti leggono, mentre i dilettanti imparano a memoria, recitano”. Si rifaceva alla radice etimologica della parola attore, da agere, che significa combattere e non da “agire” sfaccendare per il palcoscenico. Ecco la Voce, ecco cosa è il centro della parola scritta, e la Voce è immobile.
Ormai è diventato un luogo comune, dire che tutti scrivono e pochi leggono. Che differenza c’è tra uno scrittore professionista ed uno dilettante?
Cambia l’approccio. La creazione letteraria ha a che fare con il dolore, quando si abita, si convive con questa sofferenza, potremmo dire si soffre di professione, allora si ha lo scrittore di professione. Lo si può vedere dal fatto che quando lo scrittore inizia a soffrire parecchio smette di scrivere, al contrario il dilettante inizia.
Qual è il tuo rapporto con il tempo del quotidiano, del reale ed in che relazione è questo con la scrittura?
Se i fatti della mia vita diventano l’unica materia dei miei libri, c’è sempre da chiedersi ma chi se ne frega dei cavoli miei.
Hai mai pensato di lasciare la scrittura?
A 44 anni, dopo che per una vita non hai fatto che scrivere, lavorato con le parole, e non sai fare altro (indica lo scrittore Fortunato che ora lavora come architetto) mi devo andare a trovare un posto fisso? Fai una scelta di campo in un’età dove sei molto più coraggioso ed inconsapevole, poi con il tempo, l’età e la famiglia certe situazioni ti inchiodano…Beh vivere con la scrittura è davvero dura.
Noi in questa rivista, sosteniamo che vi sia nella nostra società un imbarbarimento generale della società civile, una crisi culturale che poi si evince anche dalla crisi politica, ma soprattutto dal flusso della Tv generalista e dai nuovi media…
La Tv non è solo flusso. Credo che molto dipenda dalle caratteristiche individuali del telespettatore. Vi è quello che se gli togli la Tv, gioca a Playstation, gli togli la Playstation va a giocare a calcetto, gli togli il calcetto gioca a carte fuori al bar, ogni attività che impegna capacità cognitive viene ad essere scarta dai molti. Non ti aspetterai mica che se non vi fossero i media generalisti e di flusso, si leggerebbero più libri. Conosco di un noto ricercatore americano che ha avuto un intuizione per la lotta la cancro proprio giocando alla Playstation ad un meccanismo classico di antagonismo che permette il superamento di livello.
L’individuo cerca sempre un’evasione o almeno un’illusione di evasione, meglio lo stress che leggere, meglio essere in coda per ore fuori dalla discoteca o nel traffico che leggere, e ti posso assicurare che moltissime persone non si sentiranno mai in colpa se non avranno mai letto un libro in tutta la loro vita.
Allora è impossibile far leggere di più?
Basta dare agli altri l’esempio, se tu ai tuoi figli gli dici leggi e poi esci o guardi al Tv, essi non lo faranno mai, se tu leggi loro ti vedranno e si incuriosiranno a questo strano strumento con cui il padre passa il tempo. I genitori valgono per quello che fanno e non per quello che dicono.

La letteratura è un luogo, uno spazio che resiste come piacere intellettuale all’imbarbarimento dei tempi, alla non-lettura, al disimpegno, alle facili evasioni…
La letteratura non è un posto di resistenza anche perché – il nemico non ti ascolta – , chi non legge, non compra libri, non ha interrogativi sul presente, non legge questa rivista e questo stesso dialogo. La crisi di cui parli tu è fuori dalla letteratura. Poi non è vero che la gente non legge, “La Gazzetta dello Sport” è il giornale più letto, ed è anche quello che fa opinione e da più visibilità al presidente del Milan: Silvio Berlusconi. Nessuno si accorge forse che è proprio in una cosa apparentemente neutra ed insignificante come essere continuamente presente come presidente di uno dei maggiori club italiani, che da molto consenso a Berlusconi.
Berlusconi e la sua politica culturale? Qual è oggi la politica culturale dell’attuale governo?
Storicamente chiunque comandi non ha mai avuto molto interesse a che la gente legga, in special modo i governi populisti, anche se chi è al potere oggi non impedisce di leggere, e vi è una certa libertà individuale come non si era quasi mi avuto nel corso della storia, puoi benissimo farti il tuo personalissimo consumo culturale. La sinistra ci ha provato ma poi ha perso, c’è una sorta di ricatto del consumo brutale, ricatto politico, industriale…
Nei tuoi libri La forza del Passato ed Per dove parte questo treno allego, il protagonista-narratore racconta in prima persona la storia e man mano che Lui scopre parte di essa, si rivela l’altro personaggio in un processo di svelamento continuo…
La prima persona è il sacrificio della voce narrante, che serve a dare spessore al vero protagonista che in questi due libri basati su di una relazione di coppia di personaggi è l’altro.
Come tecnicamente pensi e lavori ai tuoi personaggi?
Dipende, la trama della Forza del passato è un sogno di quando ero ragazzo. Di solito scrivo e costruisco una biografia del personaggio, biografia che in parte forse rimane conosciuta solo a me, e nel caso specifico di Bogliasco è molto più lunga di quella che può percepire il lettore.
Leggendo la quarta di copertina di La forza del Passato, la trama non mi convinceva, come dice Raffaele La Capria si può benissimo non leggere un libro se già al trama non ci convince, la trama è importante quanto il modo in cui è scritto…
Certo, sono d’accordo, ma nel mio caso quella trama è un pretesto per dire altro…come quasi sempre in letteratura.
I tuoi personaggi pensano molto, fantasticano, immaginano diverse soluzioni, descrivono le proprie emozioni, la concretezza delle proprie paure, mentre gran parte dei personaggi Hollywoodiani, o di certo tipo di letteratura, secondo me discutibile, agiscono solamente, si muovono, fanno succedere un sacco di cose che poi nella vita reale non succedono, ci sono intrecci, colpi di scena, omicidi, non trovi questi personaggi inferiori o minori …
Ogni autore fa la sua scelta, certamente è più difficile scrivere personaggi che agiscono e pensano allo stesso tempo, che il solo far succedere le cose per far ritmo…
Anche più difficile leggerli… cosa consiglia di leggere Sandro Veronesi?
Italiani: Rocco Fortunato, Albinati, Antonio Franchini, Covacic. E poi i grandi: Thomas Pynchon, Don De Lillo, Wallace, McEvan, Marias, Rick Moody solo per dire i primi che mi vengono in mente.
Ho molti dubbi su di un romanzo osannato dalla critica e dal pubblico di un tuo amico, parlo di Seta di Baricco, un libro sul niente che a me non dice niente, tu?
Beh, forse si potrebbe anche non tenerne molto conto nella bibliografia dell’autore, certamente ci sono libri migliori, diciamo che è un po’ come dici tu… Ma Seta è un libro utile.
Utile a chi, a Baricco?
Beh, in un certo senso con il successo di vendita di quel libro egli si è sottratto a compromessi, pressioni, problemi economici che attanagliano il 90% degli scrittori contemporanei in Italia
Inutile e diseducativo per il lettore, però?
Beh, non penso che la lettura di un solo libro possa essere diseducativa, se un lettore si ferma a quel libro beh non è un lettore… ci sono ripeto dei buonissimi libri di Baricco.
C’è un etica di chi fa letteratura, una responsabilità sulla qualità di quello che si scrive?
L’etica non è relativa alla qualità, perché la qualità non è un dato oggettivo. L’etica c’è eccome e riguarda il rapporto dello scrittore con se stesso, la sua sincerità, il suo coraggio di affrontare proprio ciò che gli fa male.
Cosa pensi delle scuole di scrittura creativa?
Penso quello che si può pensare in generale della scuola, c’è chi va per imparare e qualcosa lo impara, c’è chi va per incontrare scrittori noti e li incontra, chi va per dare i propri manoscritti e li da, e forse a dir il vero, non dipende nemmeno molto dagli insegnati in sé, tutto dipende dal singolo allievo. Sì, è così: la qualità di qualsiasi insegnamento viene stabilita dall’allievo, non dal maestro o dall’istituzione.
In generale penso che le scuole di scrittura siano utili: se non ad altro, servono per dissuadere dallo scrivere.


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